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by NorthofDetroitGuy from North of Detroit

Last Post 23 days, 5 hours Ago


Soil Conservation, Food Prices, Gas Prices and Ethanol
Sep 21, 2008 | 10:10 AM
Category: News
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A while back ethanol was supposed to bring in the new era.  To be honest, I am still very for ethanol as I think we could convert right away, while we work on other technologies and making those technologies more affordable.  People keep saying that “It cost more in gas to produce ethanol than it does to make it”.  Well, if your delivery trucks run on ethanol, your tractors on the farms run on ethanol, how does it cost ANY gas?  Then I see these charts that show that gas doesn’t cost anything to be delivered.  This is completely untrue.  We’ve all seen the big refueling truck at gas stations.  Granted there are pipelines that deliver our oil to refineries and such, but even then, the Oil has to get here.  These large freighters deliver the oil to our ports.  What do these freighters run on?  Diesel fuel. 

Then there is the cost of food.  People keep saying ethanol will drive up the cost of food because it comes from corn.  Actually Corn is not the best source of ethanol, it just happens to be the seed in the market that we can use to produce it and farmers understand it.   Switch grass is a far better for producing ethanol and (back to the tractors issue) you only need to plan it ONCE. 

http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?id=grass-makes-better
-ethanol-than-corn

You can even grow it on fields that are otherwise not good for crop farming.

I am surprised that over the past few years that the news media has not done a story on the Michigan Soil Conservation Program (AKA CREP). 

http://165.221.16.19/pas/newsroom/releases/2000/07/155
0.htm

Many people don’t know this, but the state of Michigan actually pays farmers NOT to farm their land.  Instead of paying farms to grow switch grass, or crops.  Growing switch grass might accomplish the same goal as soil conservation.  The program is designed to reduce erosion.  The theory is that when you have heavy snow melt and heavy rains, the soil on a plowed field will run off, thereby putting soil and chemicals into drainage ditches and other areas they don’t belong.  Eventually leading to streams and rivers and finally to our great lakes.  I totally understand this concept, however, wouldn’t it be better to have them plant switch grass as opposed to paying them to do nothing?  In this way the soil is preserved and so are all the other features.

What do you think?  Should we just leave fields baron or let them grow grass?

In my eyes even a contractor could come and cut the switch grass if we let it grow.  If it doesn’t, then we don’t lose anything.

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Member Comments Total Comments: 9
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sarge-m read my blog
Sep 21, 2008 | 10:36 AM

That is a good idea. Some factors would need addressing. If planting switch grass no longer is profitable, then the farmers should be paid for the removal of it's roots and for all the years it takes to do so. I am not %100 on switch grass, but isn't it resistant to herbicides? It could take as many as 5 years to remove it from their fields by using exspensive and unconventionale methods. These farmers would have to be paid for all that work and the lost years of production. That relates back to taxes. Now would ethanol be cheaper in the long run? I don't know.
NorthofDetroitGuy read my blog
Sep 21, 2008 | 11:09 AM

Definitely more research needs to be done. However, there are a few points in my original piece I want to emphasize. 1) These are unused farmlands in a soil bank. No matter what you do, weeds and grasses will grow there (including switch grass) so converting non-farmed land, to farming again will typically take AT LEAST a few seasons even without switch grass. As with any thing we use to make our life easier, you can find draw backs. I could find draw backs to trash bags, draw backs to sewer drains, draw backs to your toilet, shower, toothpaste, water you drink (regardless of where it comes from). Everything has drawbacks. Just because they have them doesn't mean we stop researching, innovating, and moving forward. Gasoline is one of the only areas of the U.S. economy where we haven't made significant changes. If Exxon were Microsoft or AT & T the government would be calling them monopolizers and halling them into court.
shockhazard read my blog view my photos
Sep 21, 2008 | 11:22 AM

4/5 of the world is covered by water , so , it only makes sense that the majority of resources should be spent on fuel cell technology .
We already have the first fuel cell car on the market , so why stop now .
Ethenol prodution has all of the same problems that oil production has , which , in my oppinion is a hundred yearts obsolite .
jax276 read my blog view my photos
Sep 21, 2008 | 12:26 PM

I don't know about switch grass as I was raised in fields of cement but I like the message. move on, think, innovate, great ideas aren't limited to MIT or silicon valley.
NorthofDetroitGuy read my blog
Sep 21, 2008 | 3:09 PM

I agree shock hazard, but they need to MOVE! Get crackin'. 9/10 cars sold in the world still run on regular unleaded gas. When we go to the car dealership they need to be there today. Not 10 years from now. If Ethanol can go in the next 18 months, then let it. Switch to fuel cell later. Not to mention, many vehicles cannot yet run on fuel cell. 18 wheelers, Farm Tractors, and more.
Tallmanok2 read my blog view my photos
Sep 22, 2008 | 4:41 AM

Think about this now we can raise the price of gas for tornadoes, hail, droughts. Not to mention that ethanol works in cars, but it burns hotter. therefor seals will need to be replaced more often. It's not a fix to the problem just a shift into whom we pay the money too.
NorthofDetroitGuy read my blog
Sep 22, 2008 | 7:23 PM

Holy 1970's Tallmanok! Let's crank out the Yugos and Studabakers! The seal and gasket issue is now so easy to fix you can actually modify almost any car made after the year 2000 to run on Ethanol. In fact they did this in one of the last revenge of the nerds movies.
The majority of Ethanol descent comes from the E10 era. However, let's go back a bit to that era anyway. The Honda Accord sold in the 1980's actually could run E10 and Gas and also not 1 ever reported a gasket or seal problem as a result of using E10. Not one check it out on Honda reports archives. More than 50% of the vehicles on the road today could be running on E85 with little to no cost. A huge marketing problem (mostly people that still do the disco point) think Ethanol is still bad for engines.

During the energy crisis of the 70s and 80s, there was a product referred to as "Gasohol" that was about 10% ethanol or "E10". Gasoline engines needed minor modifications to E10 because the ethanol tended to degrade seals and fuel hoses. Modern gasoline engines are now set up to run E10. In Iowa, about 60% of the gasoline sold is E10. It is actually the least expensive gasoline grade because the ethanol is subsidized to make it so. To use higher percentages like E85, engines need appropriate seals, hoses and engine settings (timing, etc.). Vehicles set up to run E85 have been selling for a number of years and are sold as "Flex Fuel" vehicles. Such vehicles have a fuel sensor in the fuel line to monitor the mix of gasoline and ethanol present and adjust the engine appropriately for the fuel being used. E
NorthofDetroitGuy read my blog
Sep 22, 2008 | 7:24 PM

Either all gasoline can be used or any mixture of ethanol up to 85% ethanol (E85). We now also have seals and material available for pipelines if we wanted to build them from Fagen Inc.
http://www.ethanolproducer.com/article.jsp?article_id=4
88
ThoughtManifest read my blog view my photos
Sep 23, 2008 | 5:16 AM

Many people through history has come up with ways to run cars without the need for our oil buddies.

The fact still stands that Big Oil Corporatons have paid big sums of Money to STOP!!! any form of Progress that results in the termination of these Coporations.

They will do the same here by manipulating the people into believing that there are:

too many obstacles, the Idea is great, but will require more years of research, We're working on prototype and concept cars for the future, Blah,Blah,Blah... My favorite is we got Electric Cars coming. Although Not enough to replace ALL the Gas Guzzlers on the Road Now.

Ford Workers Back to work after the Retooling. For more Gas Cars.

Watch for an Increase in Ethanol production. Mark my words. Something is gonna Come along that will Raise Ethanol prices.
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NorthofDetroitGuy

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