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BigGent's Blog

by BigGent from Detroit, Michigan

Last Post 62 days, 7 hours Ago


Ladies & Gentlemen.

    I'm going to put aside all this Partisan he said / she said stuff  for now & ask a serious non-partisan question that I feel affects most of us. We're so caught up in who caused it & who should fix it (myself included)  to ask the truly important questions. At least in my mind.

   Ladies & Gentleman once again I stress this is not a Partisan attack but questions I'd like answered or at least thought about, if possible.

   I've read a little about this 700 Billion Bail out proposal,but perhaps not enough. So I'm asking for your clarification. Because it seems to me that if We....American Taxpayers... Are asked to provide 700 BILLION DOLLARS to Corporations or at the very least Wall Street Company's that have personal that Knew...Knew... that most of the loans provided to people would most likely end in default. I say that last part because as anyone that's gone through a Mortgage process,knows they look at your finances with a microscope & know full well what you can & can't pay & at times will even help you exaggerate your finances to get a loan you can barely afford. Please note. This doesn't apply to everyone,but plenty of you,I'm sure can relate.

   Anyway,back to my question. If We... American Taxpayers... Are to spend 700 BILLION DOLLARS to bale out these Wall Street Company's. I Mean 700 BILLION DOLLARS & I can't stress that number enough.

   Shouldn't all the people facing foreclosure & In fact each & every American paying a mortgage have that Mortgage Wiped clean & Have those people Own their Home... Free & Clear?

   I Mean isn't 700 Billion Dollars enough to clear the mortgages of everyone in America? if it's not It can't be much more & If we're willing to help the people who've kept us in virtual servitude for so long... Shouldn't they be willing to repay the favor by forgiving the debt that we owe as we're being asked to forgive theirs?

   Speaking of Investors... I wonder how many of them are American anyway. How many Foreign investors do you think have a stake in this bale out anyway? I don't know, I can't say. But I'm willing to bet that a really good hunk of that 700 Billion is going to foreign Investors that may have lost money during Our Hardship.

   Perhaps I'm looking at this all wrong. This is why I'm asking you for your thoughts on the matter.

                                                       
                Thank you for your time. Big Gent:

       (Taken From a reply I wrote today 9/24/08)
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blublood read my blog
Sep 24, 2008 | 11:32 AM

You can't take partisanship out of the equasion, you need to know where and who the problem started with. Do you remember 'red-lining', the practice of scrutinizing low-income applicants and their ability to pay? The government outlawed the practice and ordered mortage companies to approve high-risk loans.

In a nutshell, Fannie and Freddie were created by the government to buy up risky loans. The execs were awarded bonuses on the value of assets (risky loans). They bought a lot of bad paper, cooked the books, took the bonuses, and destroyed the industry. They certainly never got the congressional anal probe that Enron and Worldcom did.

And for the players - Laws eliminating red-lining were put in place by Carter and Clinton. The banking committee, which had oversight, was run by Chris Dodd and Barney Frank. And this quasi-government entity gave big donations to Dodd, Hillary Clinton, and Obama.

You're right, why should anybody pay their
mortages when the people who clearly couldn't afford home loans are bailed out? $700B wouldn't clover all outstanding debts, they're only covering 5% of mortages.

All these bad loans will be bundled and probably sold to international investors, for pennies on the dollar, who will likely make money when our economy recovers.

These are the same people who want to take over healthcare and are promoting the 'windfall profits' tax. They're a bunch of Socialists who think they should run everything and blame everyone else for their failures.

HarleyDHawger
Sep 24, 2008 | 12:47 PM

I don't know about all the details, I blame it partly on myself. I refinanced my home to remodel and update things. I was contacted my a mortgage company and the deal sounded great for paying off our credit cards, and Auto loans getting things fixed up and nicer for the family. the Payment was going to be less than what we were paying.

I should have known better if it's to good to be true then more than likely it isn't. Our Mortgage payment has jumped to more than Double of the pre re financing amount and now I'm losing it back to the bank. Plus all the money I had put into it and the money we spent out of our own pockets prior to the refinancing.

So it must be people like me who are at fault for this mess, Not understanding the market, all the technical language and small print. Trying to better our lives and environment for my family.

Now the House won't sell for 1/3 of what I paid for it 7 years ago. the Mortgage company won't even try to work with us, every option that they have offered us doesn't apply to us and all they're willing to do is increase our payments so we cant catch up (more than the wife and I make per month) and we can't even turn the keys in lieu of foreclosure. I don't think I'm stupid but I do think I made a dumb mistake, and for making this mistake I will lose everything and become homeless.

BigGent read my blog
Sep 24, 2008 | 5:31 PM

Dear Mr Hawger.

Your exactly the person I had in mind when I posed these questions. Because it's not all about Homes. This Bail out covers Credit Cards,Auto Loans & Financing of all sorts.

Yes Mr Hawger. Your the type of person I had in mind exactly. Because you may consider it your fault. But in actuality, It's not. Let's consider your story. Which I know mirrors so many Americans today. I know, because of the credit numbers.

You probable weren't doing to bad, minding your own business. Making your payments,when suddenly you're bombarded by all these tempting offers of money & ways to get out of debt. You can hardly turn around without your phone ringing & mail box overflowing with Mortgage,refinancing & Credit Card offers. For the credit Industry, it's like fishing in a barrel. You had nowhere to turn. As a matter of fact. It got so bad laws had to be passed to prevent it,or to slow it down at least.

I Myself,got so many,I got tired of saying no. I said no,because my home is paid off,free & clear & still they kept harassing me. that's why Mr Hawger,your story & those like yours is so frustrating to me. Because the credit companys literally gave you little or no choice. To understand that,one needs to understand how the credit industry works. It's like playing in Las Vegas. Sure you can win a round or two, But in the end the odds are against you.

Understand,when you Mortgage a house or refinance an existing mortgage,what you're doing in fact is Renting with the hope of being done someday. The second most frustrating thing about this is, the credit

BigGent read my blog
Sep 24, 2008 | 5:33 PM

The second most frustrating thing about this is, the credit company's know this,they know it all to well.

I hate to get off on a Rant here, so I'll paint you one last picture of how I see this Bale out thing & you can tell me if I'm wrong.

Let's say you Buy a New Television from some Guy... for,let's say $500 dollars.... You pay him off & He goes away... But then, two months later,he shows up knocking at your door, saying....
" You know that TV I sold you a while back? Yes? Well look, I took that money & made a couple of bad investments with it, You know, bought some things that maybe I shouldn't have? You know? Well... Here's the thing. I lost all that money & I'm flat broke. So here's what I need you to do. I need you to give me... Let's say $2000 dollars to get me back on my feet again so I can make some more money. What'd ya say?".

Make no mistake. Without raising Taxes or forgoing something that our taxes were already paying for We'll be paying that $700 Billion back for a Long Long Time. And you know something else? We're not even talking about the interest on that $700 Billion. So what do you suppose the final price tag is going to be? Well over a Trillion I'm sure.

Sorry for the rant. Thank you for your time. Big Gent:

mrsray read my blog
Sep 24, 2008 | 10:30 PM

wHEN THESE COMPANIES AND BIG WIGS WERE TAKING THERE BIG BONUSES AND SALRIES, DID WE GET A PIEICE OF THE PIE,NOT!!!!!! NOW THEY WANT US TO PAY!!!!! I DONT KNOW ABOUT ANYONE ELSE, WE CANT AFFORD TO MAKE ANY LESS THAN WE DO NOW AND I CANT FIND A JOB TO SAVE MY LIFE!

sdale
Sep 25, 2008 | 3:15 AM

corporate greed has got to stop. These guys are payed millions for screwing up. Just learned milan is being paid 50 mill for a poor and disgusting job. I wish i had a job were i could do nothing and be paid millions for it

sdale
Sep 25, 2008 | 3:20 AM

I think they should start paying on results

ThoughtManifest read my blog view my photos
Sep 25, 2008 | 3:31 AM

Good Post.

I can always appreciate a Non-biased Post.

It would be nice if the people were helped. But thats Not the Case Nor the Intentions.

This is just the beginning of the Downfall.

So Many people have No idea whats Actually written in this Bailout plan that the big wigs, want signed as soon as possible.

Nor are they aware that the Bailout Plan was created Months in Advance. Well before the Crash.

Check out my Post: The Real Bailout Plan.

elizabethcook
Sep 25, 2008 | 9:13 AM

According to what I read and understood regarding this bailout, it must be passed in one form or another so that credit availability won't become frozen or non-existent for Americans across the country. Without it,banks will not have the funds to give car loans, mortgages, small business loans, home equity loans, etc. to individuals, even those with superb credit ratings. What will that do to the auto industry, building industry, small business man, etc. and all of their employees? No available money for loans will mean that there will be no one buying their products, unless they have ready cash to do so. Not passing it will affect all of us, not just those working for these bailed out institutions. (President Bush spoke of this on Wednesday night.)

There was a story on one of the networks of a small businessman with an 800 credit score who could not get the funds needed for his business. There were other stories of individuals with good credit not finding funds available for their loans. Banks are already getting tighter with their money. So the message here is that even those of us who have good credit and pay our bills may not be able to get a car loan when we need it.

I don't like bailing out others with my money any more than the rest of you, but it may be the only answer to save our economy. I do think, however, that the President's plan to give the Secretary of the Treasury the sole power to make decisions regarding the money is wrong. It must be a system of checks and balances with accountability, not a money giveaway with one person holding the checkbook.

FuriousInWarren
Sep 25, 2008 | 10:18 AM

Why don't we call in some of that "Froiegn Aide" we've supplied to so many countries to bail them out of their financial woes? Time to return the favor!!!

FuriousInWarren
Sep 25, 2008 | 10:43 AM

SOrry - type-o "Foriegn Aide" of "Aid"?? You get the idea?

ecopissed
Sep 25, 2008 | 11:18 AM

I just had to reply, to blubloods comment on red-lining. I agree outlawing this practice, did create more problems, but after researching red-lining the practice dealt more with discriminating against middle income miniorities in certain areas. I believe the democrats where just trying to remove the discrimination, why should a middle income white get a loan when the same wage earning black/hispanic not get one? I guess race shouldn't matter if you don't have the money/credit no loan for you. It puzzles me why the government created companies like Freddie and Fannie to begin with? Who's idea was that?

margent7 read my blog
Sep 25, 2008 | 12:23 PM

Hey big gent, I think the scope of this rescue attempt is beyond even the experts. As people pay their mortgages the 700B will get back to govt coffers as the plan is layed out right now but I think taht the American people should keep a wary eye out on all things Washington and vote accordingly. My situation is precarious, I got a construction loan a year ago, 65% loan to value of my property, the house is all done but I can't get financing due to this mess for the follow on loan to turn it into a regular mortgage. If I can't, due to the market as it stands now I will lose everything! I have absolutely no idea who is at fault. I think it is every politician taht ever graced the halls in Washington that contributed to this. They need to work together and for myself I am watching and any move away from just working to get it done will instantly get me out to vote against that person, conservative or liberal, this is too important for the same old partisan crap. By the way if I offended you in the past with some of my verbage, I apologize.

BigGent read my blog
Sep 25, 2008 | 5:31 PM

Hello all.

First let me say, That's alright Ms Margent. I'm not easily offended & I understand emotions run high during an election year.

Now then. As I'm sure you all can see. We aren't even the tip of the iceberg. There is confusion & frustration everywhere. I'm just of a mind that if I'm paying my hard earned money for something, I'd like something in return. Preferably something Tangible.

Now I understand the importance of keeping our economy afloat. It just seems so unfair to GIVE money to businesses that are just going to TAKE more money from us? Will our mortgage or credit rates go down? I doubt it. not with the credit freeze going on now. I'm sure if anything,when the freeze is lifted, if anything, interest rates will go up because of skittish investors.

Once again,I'd ask The Banks,Mortgage company's, Investment groups or whoever else stands to gain from this Bale out, to forgive all mortgages & credit debt to American Consumers. I May not be an Professional Economist, but it just makes good business sence to me.

Let's look at it shall we?

People with no Mortgage will have more money to spend. There's your economic Stimulus right there.

People with extra money(real money)do tend to buy a lot, Like let's say ...a new or better home. Let's think about that for a minute. What do you think the effect of a sudden surge in home sales would do to our economy? My guess would be, Home values would skyrocket, back to near or at where they were five or 6 years ago. People could sell or Invest in their homes again with out worrying about l

BigGent read my blog
Sep 25, 2008 | 5:33 PM

People could sell or Invest in their homes again with out worrying about losing money.

The New Car Markets would heat up to levels not seen in over a decade. Plants would have to reopen to keep up with demand. Laid off workers would be recalled to work in not only the auto plants but supply plants as well.

As people returned to work,so too would the Cities that have faced so much abandonment & decay over the years. All the small businesses that have seen decline would actually experience a new economic growth & Be able to expand,Hire & Rehire as well.

As people came back to towns all over America, the children that they bring back would once again fill the classrooms of struggling Schools. Because the greater the enrollment, the greater the finances available to teach the children. So in theory, Children would get a better education, so we can nurture More Intelligent leaders to keep us from getting back into this mess ever again.

Would the Banking or Credit industry suffer because of this temporary loss of funds? I'd say no, not at all. as a matter of fact I'd say they'd prosper as well. Because now. Because of money that was ours in the first place. They would be getting customers that will not only apply for new loans But can actually afford those loans as well. So I'd say "Fear not Credit Company's. They'll be plenty of Consumers that have not learned their lessons,for you to prey upon".

Yes, I might sound like an Idealist. But I feel if WE'VE got to pay for it. $700 Billion is a small price to pay for Financial & Economic Prosper

BigGent read my blog
Sep 25, 2008 | 5:34 PM

Yes, I might sound like an Idealist. But I feel if WE'VE got to pay for it. $700 Billion is a small price to pay for Financial & Economic Prosperity".

retired_golfer read my blog
Sep 25, 2008 | 11:09 PM

I feel your pain BigGent, but paying off everyone's mortgage is not going to happen. The underlying factor here in this whole mess is the GREED that Banks, Underwriters, Mortgage Brokers, Appraisers and everyone else associated with making these loans exhibited. They all got paid huge fees when the deals closed. Now even though I hate to see the Banks get bailed out, it's the consequence of not bailing them out that scares me. Do you have a 401K, or own stocks, or have holdings in the financial sector of our economy? If you do and this "Bailout Plan" does not happen, you and I could lose a significant part of our savings and retirement portfolios. I don't want to see any CEO's of these Banks get rewarded with big bonuses or offered any Golden Parachutes, and I would like to see help offered to struggling homeowners to avoid foreclosure so they can stay in their homes and pay what they can afford. Giving it back to the Bank at $.30 on the dollar will only make the overall situation worse and deepen the crises.

Further, the prosecutors should go after the Mortgage Brokers, Appraisers, Underwriters, Bankers and anyone who was connected to these fraudulent loans to set the example that this kind of criminal activity will be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. Their crimes have shaken our economy to the very core and will take years to recover from. Our Grandchildren will be paying for this well into their lifetimes.

niese_lgg247 read my blog view my photos
Sep 26, 2008 | 9:07 AM

No NO BAILOUT!! It is not a answer!!!
These companies need to take complete responsibility!! Such as Executives, Board of Directors, & Regulators. They knew exactly what was going on and now want American People to Pay for it and take the Blame...
No Socialism Smelling Bail Out!!
Come on we Americans are not Stupid!!
NO TO PAULSON!!!!!!!!!!!
Gerard & Deniese

elizabethcook
Sep 26, 2008 | 9:47 AM

Senator Richard Shelby,a Republican, is a member of the Banking Committee in the Senate. This is the committee which is trying to hammer out this $700,000,000,000 bailout agreement. Senator Shelby stated that he received a letter signed by over 200 economists, many of whom are faculty at top ranking universities, who advised that the Paulson plan or anything like it should not be approved. The economists said:"Don't rush to judgement" on this bailout.

My question is: Why don't these 200 economists formulate a plan since they understand the economy in all probability more than anyone? Somehow it doesn't seem advisable that legislators should be the ones to "hammer out" such an agreement when they are not experts in the field. Let the economists figure it out and present their solution to Congress! Then Congress can decide!

I'm sure that the Banking Committee has advisors working with them on this all important issue. But the 200 economists who wrote Shelby gave fair warning that this bailout may be a disaster for the economy.

superhifan read my blog
Sep 26, 2008 | 2:29 PM

One of the groups that's responsible for this mess that I don't hear many talking about are the loan officers. Everyone wants a part of the American dream, so average citizens with reasonable credit desired to purchase a piece of property.

Unfortunately, loan officers greased their palms by offering people options they knew would come back to bite their clients. Many people don't know about adjustable rate mortgages and LIBOR, which dictates the movement of the ARM.

When I go to the dentist and he tells me that I need a root canal, I don't get a second opinion; he's a dentist and I believe he knows what he is doing. This scenario is the same with people and loan officers, when they tell you they can put you in a home with no money down with a low interest rate, and because the housing market will continue to increase, you can refinance into a conventional loan before the ARM is due to adjust, you take it. This is simply not about sub-prime loans, it's about ARMs, which Alan Greenspan is responsible for encouraging this vehicle to be used to get people buying homes. Many of the five million houses in foreclosure, if they were put into to 30 year fixed loans would not be experiencing the current economic conditions in the market.

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BigGent

I'm a 40 something (at the time of this writing) year old Married Mechanic from the City of Detroit.

Member Since: 9/4/2008